Is faith only good if good things come out of it? What if your faith causes you to harm others or hinder others from living fully? What if your faith causes you to be judgmental, critical of others, and discriminatory? What if your faith mixes with your politics?
The first sermon that Shane ever heard at my church when we were dating was titled "Jesus is a capitalist."
Jesus, a capitalist? Was that pastor reading the same gospels as I was?
I'd like to say that Jesus was a Buddhist, but that may be only because I really admire Buddhist teachings and feel that they line up most closely with what I think Jesus was trying to preach.
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
Blind Faith
Is faith good?
Is faith bad?
Is blind faith good?
Is blind faith bad?
Define good & bad.
Is faith bad?
Is blind faith good?
Is blind faith bad?
Define good & bad.
Monday, April 27, 2009
Pamphlet about Islam
I met a man once at a coffee shop that tried to convert me to Islam. He had a pamphlet and took my e-mail address. He had overheard me and a friend talking about religion. We were reading books about religions and were seeking to compare. He offered to give us some inside info about the beliefs of Islam. I found it fascinating that the info in his pamphlet reminded me so much of tracts that I myself have given to people or read at churches that I have attended. It included information about the prophesies in the Koran and how they have come true in our present time, and the probabilities of those prophesies coming true by chance. This was a huge moment of recognition of the persuasion tactics of Christianity. Lets use numbers and logic to convince people that we can prove something that has always been a belief by faith.
I have read enough info tearing apart Christian 'logic' that I now believe that the phrase is a complete joke. There can be no 'Christian logic', only faith.
I have read enough info tearing apart Christian 'logic' that I now believe that the phrase is a complete joke. There can be no 'Christian logic', only faith.
My argument thus far
Basically the argument that I have been making so far has been:
If a religion or belief IS the one TRUE religion or belief, then how come its members or followers do not show its TRUTH through the majority of their actions?
I know I didn't phrase that quite right, but you get the point.
So now, back to my journey.
If a religion or belief IS the one TRUE religion or belief, then how come its members or followers do not show its TRUTH through the majority of their actions?
I know I didn't phrase that quite right, but you get the point.
So now, back to my journey.
- I understand grace and forgiveness. I can forgive the people that have been rude or insensitive to me.
- I also know that there are religious people, and especially Christian people that I know personally, who are very moral and kind, and do 'show Christ' through their everyday choices. I ran into an old classmate of my older siblings. He is on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ and is a regular at the Barnes & Noble store that my husband works at. This Christian man never fails to say hi, to ask me how I am, and to be sincerely interested in my responses. I still have good friends that I went to church with. I still have coffee with some of them on occasion. They are Christians who I feel really are trying to live up to a higher standard. That higher standard including: not judging or gossiping, and fully loving all humans. I really admire those people.
- I also know atheists and agnostics who are doing the same thing.
User friendly
The last church that I attended regularly was a seeker friendly church. I always want to say 'user friendly', but I really don't know if these churches are user friendly. I attended that church off and on for well over two years, but still felt completely invisible. I had signed up to be a greeter and to help with the youth group, but never got a call back on either. I was in all the women's bible studies, but the women in them would barely say 'hi' on Sunday mornings. I realise that I am a little edgy with my pierced nose and sometimes abnormal hair style. I have sometimes blamed my appearance on the lack of response to my attempts at community involvement in the church. I also am not a couple (my husband does not attend church). There seem to be a few categories in churches: Young Married Couples, Singles, College Age, Divorced, Couples with children, Couples w/out children, (I'm sure I'm missing some). Many of these people have groups that they belong to. Being a married-working-mother with a non-church-going-husband, there was no real group for me, other than women's bible studies, which were full of single women who grouped together, and married women (couples) who would get together with other couples.
I worked overnights on Saturdays and would pack up my two three year old twin boys and go to church Sunday mornings. After a long week of working overnights and taking care of my boys during the day, I was pretty tired. Shane's schedule varies and usually my sleep time was minimal. One of the nursery workers questioned if I had been using drugs. I know that my eyes were a little blood shot, and I usually looked like I worked all night (because I did), but I was slightly irritated by the suggestion. (I have NEVER used drugs, unless you count the occasional cigarette in high school, the less than a dozen times I've been intoxicated by alcohol consumption, or my frequent use of coffee.) When I told him that I worked overnights he gave me a look that showed he did not believe a word I said.
It was here that I met another pastor's wife. We got to know each other a little bit while doing some painting in the church. She was new to the area and silly me, I thought, hey I should invite her out for coffee. She seemed VERY excited to go out. So I called her a few times, leaving messages, and then we talked at church and set up a date to meet in the early morning, right after I got home from work. I found a babysitter. She said to call her that morning to decide where to meet. I called that morning, no answer, left a message. I had a babysitter at my house and was too embarrassed to say that my plans weren't working out when I didn't get a call back. So I went out by myself. She never really talked to me again. She'd wave and say 'hi' and then turn to talk to someone else or look busy.
This church had attendance cards that we filled out every week. I made it to church pretty regularly. During the membership class one person asked why we had to fill those out every week. The pastor said that he uses those to follow up on people that have been attending for awhile and then haven't been at church for more than six weeks. I quit going to church there when Carrera was about a month old. About a year later I got an e-mail from the pastor saying that they missed me. After a year?
I had a single positive experience at this church: when Carrera was born some women from the church brought over meals for us. I appreciated those meals VERY much!!
I quit going to the church for two reasons. The first and primary reason was because I did not feel good about myself going there. I was sick of being invisible. And secondly because of the emergence of a bad reputation and gossip which admittedly was true about me, and so therefore was partially my own fault. That is a story I will save, and keep to myself. Although I learned a little bit about how the gossip train works in user friendly churches (or perhaps in all churches). And this may be why the pastor took so long to e-mail me that I had been missed.
I worked overnights on Saturdays and would pack up my two three year old twin boys and go to church Sunday mornings. After a long week of working overnights and taking care of my boys during the day, I was pretty tired. Shane's schedule varies and usually my sleep time was minimal. One of the nursery workers questioned if I had been using drugs. I know that my eyes were a little blood shot, and I usually looked like I worked all night (because I did), but I was slightly irritated by the suggestion. (I have NEVER used drugs, unless you count the occasional cigarette in high school, the less than a dozen times I've been intoxicated by alcohol consumption, or my frequent use of coffee.) When I told him that I worked overnights he gave me a look that showed he did not believe a word I said.
It was here that I met another pastor's wife. We got to know each other a little bit while doing some painting in the church. She was new to the area and silly me, I thought, hey I should invite her out for coffee. She seemed VERY excited to go out. So I called her a few times, leaving messages, and then we talked at church and set up a date to meet in the early morning, right after I got home from work. I found a babysitter. She said to call her that morning to decide where to meet. I called that morning, no answer, left a message. I had a babysitter at my house and was too embarrassed to say that my plans weren't working out when I didn't get a call back. So I went out by myself. She never really talked to me again. She'd wave and say 'hi' and then turn to talk to someone else or look busy.
This church had attendance cards that we filled out every week. I made it to church pretty regularly. During the membership class one person asked why we had to fill those out every week. The pastor said that he uses those to follow up on people that have been attending for awhile and then haven't been at church for more than six weeks. I quit going to church there when Carrera was about a month old. About a year later I got an e-mail from the pastor saying that they missed me. After a year?
I had a single positive experience at this church: when Carrera was born some women from the church brought over meals for us. I appreciated those meals VERY much!!
I quit going to the church for two reasons. The first and primary reason was because I did not feel good about myself going there. I was sick of being invisible. And secondly because of the emergence of a bad reputation and gossip which admittedly was true about me, and so therefore was partially my own fault. That is a story I will save, and keep to myself. Although I learned a little bit about how the gossip train works in user friendly churches (or perhaps in all churches). And this may be why the pastor took so long to e-mail me that I had been missed.
Sunday, April 19, 2009
Medusa Demon
I had two bible school students tell me that they saw a green Medusa demon watching over me at night. I still wonder...
Prophesy
I've had quite a few prophesies said over me in my days attending Pentecostal churches. Some of them I can almost remember word for word. I have some on tape and I also typed them up. Once in awhile I'll take them out and read them. My husband can attest that I am a little bit voodooish with prophesy. You see, some of them have seemed to have happened, or have been very accurate at describing who I am. Yet others have not. There is this theory that prophesies only come to pass if you are following God. If you are not following God then they will not happen. Ok, if God knows the future then wtf? I have also had my palm read by a man that I worked with. His was the most accurate of any prophesy I ever had. I really enjoyed talking with him about future and palm reading. Our lines on our palms change, if you photocopy your palm today and one year from now, they will look different. Obviously our finger prints don't change, but the grooves do. Of course I never have photocopied my palms. Basically his point was that if you stick on the course that you are on now, this is what your future holds, but things change. Maybe that is what prophesy is like. A knowing that is temporary or conditional. But is it words from God? Honestly I think it is an energy thing, and no more. Even the palm reading is a little bit too far fetched for me. If God really wants to tell me that he or she is real, wouldn't he or she find a better way to say it, or a more specific way. Tell me what color underwear that I am wearing, not what my desires are. Its pretty easy to guess that a female Christian teen's desires are to get married and have kids and if you are off the mark, you can always correct your prophesy by saying, "God is going to give you that desire". Hey, I can play this game too.
Questions for God
I had a prophesy said over me once that I would have questions, lots of questions, and that I needed to seek God for the answers. That the answers would only come from God, not from my logic. Here are some questions for God:
1. What part does religion play in morality?
2. Why aren't Christian's more moral than atheists, agnostics, Muslims, pagans, etc.?
3. Why is there a hell?
4. Why do you, God, intervene in some instances and not in others?
5. Why do you answer some prayers and not others?
6. Why don't you prevent people from dying that haven't turned their hearts to believing?
7. How can a completely immoral person that believes in Jesus go to heaven, while a moral person that doesn't believe go to hell?
8. Why are women blamed for sexual intercourse, while the men get off scot-free?
9. Why did you put breasts right out in front? Obviously they would be easier to hide if they were somewhere else. Why are breasts so shameful to the church?
10. How could a perfect God make such imperfect creatures (humans)?
11. What is the purpose of mental illness?
12. Why does religion cause humans to hate and hurt other humans?
more questions to come...
1. What part does religion play in morality?
2. Why aren't Christian's more moral than atheists, agnostics, Muslims, pagans, etc.?
3. Why is there a hell?
4. Why do you, God, intervene in some instances and not in others?
5. Why do you answer some prayers and not others?
6. Why don't you prevent people from dying that haven't turned their hearts to believing?
7. How can a completely immoral person that believes in Jesus go to heaven, while a moral person that doesn't believe go to hell?
8. Why are women blamed for sexual intercourse, while the men get off scot-free?
9. Why did you put breasts right out in front? Obviously they would be easier to hide if they were somewhere else. Why are breasts so shameful to the church?
10. How could a perfect God make such imperfect creatures (humans)?
11. What is the purpose of mental illness?
12. Why does religion cause humans to hate and hurt other humans?
more questions to come...
Challenge your beliefs
I'll admit I've been staying away from this blog because it was making me a little depressed. I guess negative thought brings negative feelings.
I had a conversation tonight with my 15 year old niece on the way home from Barnes & Noble. I was telling her that sometimes I wonder how my life would be different if I had married one of my Christian sweethearts instead of my husband Shane, who is an atheist. I wondered how I would be different. If I still would have come to the same conclusions about religion. If I would have sought out truth and read both sides of issues. If I would have walked away from my faith. If I would have followed my dreams of being a missionary. Or is our journey predestined? Did I really have a choice at all? Her thoughts were that we become like the people we hang around, which I completely agree with. And of course Shane and I become more alike as time goes on. But that doesn't mean that I haven't made my own observations and conclusions about religion. He just came to those conclusions before me, and encouraged me to seek out the truth by looking at religion completely, from a multi-angled view.
Is there a reason that many churches do not encourage their members to question their faith or try out other churches? I have a close friend that is Traditional Catholic. When I first met her I said "Hey, why don't we go to each others churches for fun." A third friend thought that would be cool too (we each attended a different church), but the Traditional Catholic church is very strict about not going to other churches. Are they afraid that their members might be swayed in a different direction? A Mormon friend from high school had the same stance: I should try out her church, but it was not acceptable for her to come with me to church. I, on the other hand, was encouraged by family, and at times by my church to question my faith, and to be open to trying out other churches (perhaps even as a cultural experience). Is that why I came to the conclusion that it is all bull shit? Should we not question what we have been taught?
One of my core values and a primary belief of mine: QUESTION EVERYTHING!
I had a conversation tonight with my 15 year old niece on the way home from Barnes & Noble. I was telling her that sometimes I wonder how my life would be different if I had married one of my Christian sweethearts instead of my husband Shane, who is an atheist. I wondered how I would be different. If I still would have come to the same conclusions about religion. If I would have sought out truth and read both sides of issues. If I would have walked away from my faith. If I would have followed my dreams of being a missionary. Or is our journey predestined? Did I really have a choice at all? Her thoughts were that we become like the people we hang around, which I completely agree with. And of course Shane and I become more alike as time goes on. But that doesn't mean that I haven't made my own observations and conclusions about religion. He just came to those conclusions before me, and encouraged me to seek out the truth by looking at religion completely, from a multi-angled view.
Is there a reason that many churches do not encourage their members to question their faith or try out other churches? I have a close friend that is Traditional Catholic. When I first met her I said "Hey, why don't we go to each others churches for fun." A third friend thought that would be cool too (we each attended a different church), but the Traditional Catholic church is very strict about not going to other churches. Are they afraid that their members might be swayed in a different direction? A Mormon friend from high school had the same stance: I should try out her church, but it was not acceptable for her to come with me to church. I, on the other hand, was encouraged by family, and at times by my church to question my faith, and to be open to trying out other churches (perhaps even as a cultural experience). Is that why I came to the conclusion that it is all bull shit? Should we not question what we have been taught?
One of my core values and a primary belief of mine: QUESTION EVERYTHING!
Tuesday, April 14, 2009
Experiences
I've got about a dozen new posts started, but haven't finished any of them. Perhaps it is because my feelings about religion and Christianity are so interconnected with my experiences in the church. Shouldn't my thoughts be wider than my own experience?
Saturday, April 11, 2009
Tuesday, April 7, 2009
Fear
One of the primary arguments I have against religion is the "fear factor." Why do we have to be inspired by a fear of hell to do good? If you didn't believe in God would you quit being good or kind?
Monday, April 6, 2009
Judge Not
"Judge not lest ye be judged."
There are some morals that I have thought very primary to my belief system. One being to not judge others. I read recently in a book about Waldorf education that humans are like trees. We see the tree, but we don't see the root system. Which is more important, that which we see or that which we don't see? To think that what we see in other humans is the whole truth is foolish. There is so much that we will never know even about those closest too us. For goodness sake, I don't even fully understand myself. So how can I judge another? I'm not going to say that I don't judge. That would be a lie. As humans it is in our nature to make judgments. It is a survival mechanism. So as I write down some of my experiences I am scared that I will be judging. I guess the only way to fully avoid this is too write the facts as I experienced them, or as I remember experiencing them. And then to allow you to make your own judgments. I don't think that most of the people that have hurt me did so consciously. I fully believe that they thought that they were making right choices. Right and wrong are very subjective. Here is a good spot to remind you of that root system. Our logic may be very different from that of another human being.
(Idea for tree analogy from Understanding Waldorf Education: Teaching from the Inside Out by Jack Petrash)
There are some morals that I have thought very primary to my belief system. One being to not judge others. I read recently in a book about Waldorf education that humans are like trees. We see the tree, but we don't see the root system. Which is more important, that which we see or that which we don't see? To think that what we see in other humans is the whole truth is foolish. There is so much that we will never know even about those closest too us. For goodness sake, I don't even fully understand myself. So how can I judge another? I'm not going to say that I don't judge. That would be a lie. As humans it is in our nature to make judgments. It is a survival mechanism. So as I write down some of my experiences I am scared that I will be judging. I guess the only way to fully avoid this is too write the facts as I experienced them, or as I remember experiencing them. And then to allow you to make your own judgments. I don't think that most of the people that have hurt me did so consciously. I fully believe that they thought that they were making right choices. Right and wrong are very subjective. Here is a good spot to remind you of that root system. Our logic may be very different from that of another human being.
(Idea for tree analogy from Understanding Waldorf Education: Teaching from the Inside Out by Jack Petrash)
Morality #1
Morality and religion do not go hand in hand. In recent years, now that I have young children, people say things like "You really should bring your kids to church so they can learn morals," or "How will your children learn morals if you don't go to a church?" Well, from my experience, church is NOT the place to learn morals. Morals are learned primarily through example, and who is the most influential example to your kids? YOU! I teach my kids my morals through my example to them.
Journals
I journal.
I journal a lot.
I started journaling regularly when I was in college at about age 17. At that point I was very 'religious', although I would have called myself 'Christian'. When I was in high school there was a backlash against the word religious because religion implies rules and judgment, not a personal relationship with Jesus, which is what Christians are really supposed to have. But as much as the Christians I have met talk that way, their lives are still run by rules. And as much as I'd like to say that I wasn't that way, I was. My life was ran by rules and guilt. Did I feel guilty when I hadn't opened my bible for a week? Yes. Did I feel guilty when my prayers were generic and felt rehearsed? Yes. Did I feel guilty when I fantasized about the cute boy in my Chemistry class? Hell yes. And I know that I wasn't the only one (who felt guilt... and perhaps not the only one who fantasized about Mr. Dreamy in Chem). I took God seriously, and I knew that my thoughts were just as important as my actions. I even felt guilty about feeling guilty. When I read through my old journals I can read about my struggles and doubts and passion for God. They are evidence that my life experiences really did happen. I can see the questioning and progression to where I am today. In the last few years my journals have become filled with Buddhist and New Age teachings, and observations of life and human nature. 'God' has slowly become less and less visible in my journals, and social responsibility and compassion have become perhaps the most important entries.
I journal a lot.
I started journaling regularly when I was in college at about age 17. At that point I was very 'religious', although I would have called myself 'Christian'. When I was in high school there was a backlash against the word religious because religion implies rules and judgment, not a personal relationship with Jesus, which is what Christians are really supposed to have. But as much as the Christians I have met talk that way, their lives are still run by rules. And as much as I'd like to say that I wasn't that way, I was. My life was ran by rules and guilt. Did I feel guilty when I hadn't opened my bible for a week? Yes. Did I feel guilty when my prayers were generic and felt rehearsed? Yes. Did I feel guilty when I fantasized about the cute boy in my Chemistry class? Hell yes. And I know that I wasn't the only one (who felt guilt... and perhaps not the only one who fantasized about Mr. Dreamy in Chem). I took God seriously, and I knew that my thoughts were just as important as my actions. I even felt guilty about feeling guilty. When I read through my old journals I can read about my struggles and doubts and passion for God. They are evidence that my life experiences really did happen. I can see the questioning and progression to where I am today. In the last few years my journals have become filled with Buddhist and New Age teachings, and observations of life and human nature. 'God' has slowly become less and less visible in my journals, and social responsibility and compassion have become perhaps the most important entries.
Educated Debate
Pet peeve: People regurgitating what an author or pastor says without actually thinking for themselves.
Whenever I get into a discussion about God and religion with people I start hearing them say things that sound familiar. Yes, I have read Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, Greg Boyd (I've met him a number of times), and more. I have attended a 'World View' conference, and 'World View' camp. At these camps they teach teens how to debate with people that have different world views. I learned how to debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, New Ageists, Muslims, and of course atheists, and more. I hate to debate. I especially don't like random confrontations on the street or via the Internet (e-mail, Facebook). The type of debate that occurs when two people come together, usually by chance, without the intent of learning anything from one another and try to pull facts out of their butt, twist them, and then are shocked when their 'opponent' doesn't concede. This is when we run into that damn regurgitation.
I was watching a lecture given by Richard Dawkins at a Christian university on television and during the question and answer session one student pulled the "What if your wrong?" question. I almost had to turn off the TV out of pure disgust with the oldest bull shit question in the book. Of course Dawkins had a witty response followed up by a serious one.
If you really want to debate with an atheist why don't YOU read a little from the opposition: Pascal Boyer, Sam Harris, Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins... Do the research yourself instead of regurgitating the religious stuff you have been fed by pastors and religious scholars.
Whenever I get into a discussion about God and religion with people I start hearing them say things that sound familiar. Yes, I have read Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, Greg Boyd (I've met him a number of times), and more. I have attended a 'World View' conference, and 'World View' camp. At these camps they teach teens how to debate with people that have different world views. I learned how to debate with Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, New Ageists, Muslims, and of course atheists, and more. I hate to debate. I especially don't like random confrontations on the street or via the Internet (e-mail, Facebook). The type of debate that occurs when two people come together, usually by chance, without the intent of learning anything from one another and try to pull facts out of their butt, twist them, and then are shocked when their 'opponent' doesn't concede. This is when we run into that damn regurgitation.
I was watching a lecture given by Richard Dawkins at a Christian university on television and during the question and answer session one student pulled the "What if your wrong?" question. I almost had to turn off the TV out of pure disgust with the oldest bull shit question in the book. Of course Dawkins had a witty response followed up by a serious one.
If you really want to debate with an atheist why don't YOU read a little from the opposition: Pascal Boyer, Sam Harris, Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins... Do the research yourself instead of regurgitating the religious stuff you have been fed by pastors and religious scholars.
Saturday, April 4, 2009
Bitter Bitch
Ok, this was never meant to be a pity party. Just an exploration of my experiences and de-fragmenting of why I cannot call myself a Christian. But I am tending to sound like a bitter bitch. Maybe I need to get some of the bitter bitch out before I can move on to the educated reasons why I no longer ascribe to a religion.
Lets try something a little lighter and perhaps less personal.
Science.
Needless to say, as a sceptic, I adore science. I love that there is so much that we don't know yet, but are learning at an incredible rate. I love watching Public Television and learning about research of diseases, of animals, in technology and and especially gene research. Genes are fascinating. Perhaps almost as fascinating as studying human behavior. Guess what wonderful author pairs the two? Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion, The Selfish Gene). At the time that I read these books I was such a sceptic that I not only thought that the teachings of the church were bullshit, but also that atheism was bullshit. Dawkins writes wonderfully and speaks eloquently about how belief in god may be a delusion resulting from evolution.
Lets try something a little lighter and perhaps less personal.
Science.
Needless to say, as a sceptic, I adore science. I love that there is so much that we don't know yet, but are learning at an incredible rate. I love watching Public Television and learning about research of diseases, of animals, in technology and and especially gene research. Genes are fascinating. Perhaps almost as fascinating as studying human behavior. Guess what wonderful author pairs the two? Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion, The Selfish Gene). At the time that I read these books I was such a sceptic that I not only thought that the teachings of the church were bullshit, but also that atheism was bullshit. Dawkins writes wonderfully and speaks eloquently about how belief in god may be a delusion resulting from evolution.
Accountability
Recent discussion with a friend (that happens to be the wife of a pastor) has raised a challenge to my previous comment about pastor's wives. Really the comment was meant in jest, not spite.
But in all sincerity here is another analysis to get you thinking about the role of 'pastor's wife':
Most pastors are men. All of the pastors I have had have been men (besides the woman I met once who married Shane and I). Majority of churches do not keep a staff of women to deal with counseling women or connecting women with women. The women's groups in the churches that I have attended were led by women in the church that volunteered their time. This makes it hard when us women have an issue that we feel we need to talk with someone about. I am NOT going to go to a man to discuss my issues with sexual impurity. With that said, the only obvious choice for counsel falls to the 'pastor's wife'. And what is the number one way to meet with a pastor's wife, well, for me, coffee of course. That is how I meet with EVERYONE. I can understand that the pastor's wife feels many demands. All the women in the church want to be her friend, or even best friend. By default she may often becomes in charge of many groups and gatherings. It must be hard to balance mothering her own children and also being a sort of mother figure in the church. I can have compassion. It really is not the fault of the pastor's wife for not having the time to give to the women who feel they need her, but that of the church. One church I attended had a list of contacts in the bulletin of about ten people (three pastors, two youth leaders, college group leader, children's ministry leader, women's group leader and two worship leaders). Of the ten, only one was a woman.
Many churches expect their members to meet moral standards in order to retain their membership, and often they encourage accountability to help maintain the expected moral standards. Yet I have never seen a church have good systems set up for accountability.
I was once "outed' by a female accountability partner to our male head pastor for having sexual issues (she sincerely believed that I was demon possessed). This accountability partner was a friend I trusted and she also had signed a contract of confidentiality with me.The pastor never reprimanded her for sharing my secrets with him. After the 'outing' to the pastor I met with the youth pastor's wife in her home. I was hoping to get some ideas for how to have accountability. I was worried about finding someone I could trust. The answer I received from the pastor's wife was that I needed to join a church accountability group. The only problem was that there was only one accountability group for unmarried adults in my age group. In that group was not only the friend who had betrayed me, but other women that I would never have felt comfortable sharing ANY of my struggles with. I was honest with the pastor's wife, and told her me concerns with the group. She agreed to meet with me regularly. After her cancelling on me a few times, and then leaving two or three messages on her voice mail (that were never returned), I gave up. I was on my own.
I may have given up on the 'pastor's wife' route, but I was determined to be a moral Christian, and I knew that I was struggling, so I scheduled an appointment with a female Christian counselor. This counseling service is not directly connected to this church alone, but is hooked up to a network of different churches in the area. I convinced my mom into paying the fees for me. So I began meeting with two wonderful women and openly discussed many things that I had never told anyone. In stark contrast to my previous experiences, the counselor was accepting of me. She also did not think I was demon possessed. The assistant counselor and I began to meet regularly to keep me accountable. She became my accountability partner and she was trustworthy. She actually became a surrogate mother in some ways. I felt that I was beginning to make progress and was challenged to grow in my faith. Unfortunately the other shoe was about to drop. When things were really going good, this woman became "too busy" to continue our relationship. Back to square one.
It wasn't long after this that I met Shane.
My mother did not approve of my relationship with Shane. We had been engaged for two weeks when she went the pastor and asked him what she should do. His wisdom: kick her out of your home. So I was given an ultimatum, and chose to move out and in with Shane. We found out that we were pregnant a week later. Shortly after this I received a phone call at work from the pastor saying that I didn't meet the moral standards required of a member of his church. Followed were some very nasty e-mails from the youth pastor, the one whose wife I had met with to ask about accountability. I still remember him writing about how betrayed he felt by me, and how him and his wife were always there for me. DELETE.
But in all sincerity here is another analysis to get you thinking about the role of 'pastor's wife':
Most pastors are men. All of the pastors I have had have been men (besides the woman I met once who married Shane and I). Majority of churches do not keep a staff of women to deal with counseling women or connecting women with women. The women's groups in the churches that I have attended were led by women in the church that volunteered their time. This makes it hard when us women have an issue that we feel we need to talk with someone about. I am NOT going to go to a man to discuss my issues with sexual impurity. With that said, the only obvious choice for counsel falls to the 'pastor's wife'. And what is the number one way to meet with a pastor's wife, well, for me, coffee of course. That is how I meet with EVERYONE. I can understand that the pastor's wife feels many demands. All the women in the church want to be her friend, or even best friend. By default she may often becomes in charge of many groups and gatherings. It must be hard to balance mothering her own children and also being a sort of mother figure in the church. I can have compassion. It really is not the fault of the pastor's wife for not having the time to give to the women who feel they need her, but that of the church. One church I attended had a list of contacts in the bulletin of about ten people (three pastors, two youth leaders, college group leader, children's ministry leader, women's group leader and two worship leaders). Of the ten, only one was a woman.
Many churches expect their members to meet moral standards in order to retain their membership, and often they encourage accountability to help maintain the expected moral standards. Yet I have never seen a church have good systems set up for accountability.
I was once "outed' by a female accountability partner to our male head pastor for having sexual issues (she sincerely believed that I was demon possessed). This accountability partner was a friend I trusted and she also had signed a contract of confidentiality with me.The pastor never reprimanded her for sharing my secrets with him. After the 'outing' to the pastor I met with the youth pastor's wife in her home. I was hoping to get some ideas for how to have accountability. I was worried about finding someone I could trust. The answer I received from the pastor's wife was that I needed to join a church accountability group. The only problem was that there was only one accountability group for unmarried adults in my age group. In that group was not only the friend who had betrayed me, but other women that I would never have felt comfortable sharing ANY of my struggles with. I was honest with the pastor's wife, and told her me concerns with the group. She agreed to meet with me regularly. After her cancelling on me a few times, and then leaving two or three messages on her voice mail (that were never returned), I gave up. I was on my own.
I may have given up on the 'pastor's wife' route, but I was determined to be a moral Christian, and I knew that I was struggling, so I scheduled an appointment with a female Christian counselor. This counseling service is not directly connected to this church alone, but is hooked up to a network of different churches in the area. I convinced my mom into paying the fees for me. So I began meeting with two wonderful women and openly discussed many things that I had never told anyone. In stark contrast to my previous experiences, the counselor was accepting of me. She also did not think I was demon possessed. The assistant counselor and I began to meet regularly to keep me accountable. She became my accountability partner and she was trustworthy. She actually became a surrogate mother in some ways. I felt that I was beginning to make progress and was challenged to grow in my faith. Unfortunately the other shoe was about to drop. When things were really going good, this woman became "too busy" to continue our relationship. Back to square one.
It wasn't long after this that I met Shane.
My mother did not approve of my relationship with Shane. We had been engaged for two weeks when she went the pastor and asked him what she should do. His wisdom: kick her out of your home. So I was given an ultimatum, and chose to move out and in with Shane. We found out that we were pregnant a week later. Shortly after this I received a phone call at work from the pastor saying that I didn't meet the moral standards required of a member of his church. Followed were some very nasty e-mails from the youth pastor, the one whose wife I had met with to ask about accountability. I still remember him writing about how betrayed he felt by me, and how him and his wife were always there for me. DELETE.
Sin
Sin. Nice little three letter word. Has that nasty little S at the beginning. Never have liked that letter. S, as in snake or sinister or sex. Without that S, 'sin' would be 'in'.
Offenses
I've often heard in conversations and sermons that a primary reason people abandon religion is because of offenses taken; the pain experienced at the hand of Christians (etc.). I can't even count how many stories I've heard about atheists that in the past were geeky teenagers, not accepted in their church youth groups.
To say that my abandoning of faith in religion did not come about because of many offenses taken would be a stretch. It may play a larger role than I'd even want to admit. But really, offenses make perfect sense as a pathway away from religion or God. Primarily because if religions were everything (or even a little bit) that they claimed to be, there would not be the large outpouring of people without good character. If Christians acted out of love, if there were no suicide bombers, if people didn't confuse their politics with their religion, then wouldn't religion be way more popular? If I started a religious group with values of selflessness and love, not forgetting balance, letting go of rules based on fear, and the people involved actually acted according to these tenants, would it not attract people rather than repulse them? Just take look at Zen Buddhism, or the new age movement.
I understand the argument that humans are 'fallen' and 'sinful' and that God tests us through the bad things that happen to us. I also understand that people believe we shouldn't judge a religion based on the bad qualities or choices that its members exhibit. BUT, why can't we?
So I'll admit that offenses have played a part in my journey
To say that my abandoning of faith in religion did not come about because of many offenses taken would be a stretch. It may play a larger role than I'd even want to admit. But really, offenses make perfect sense as a pathway away from religion or God. Primarily because if religions were everything (or even a little bit) that they claimed to be, there would not be the large outpouring of people without good character. If Christians acted out of love, if there were no suicide bombers, if people didn't confuse their politics with their religion, then wouldn't religion be way more popular? If I started a religious group with values of selflessness and love, not forgetting balance, letting go of rules based on fear, and the people involved actually acted according to these tenants, would it not attract people rather than repulse them? Just take look at Zen Buddhism, or the new age movement.
I understand the argument that humans are 'fallen' and 'sinful' and that God tests us through the bad things that happen to us. I also understand that people believe we shouldn't judge a religion based on the bad qualities or choices that its members exhibit. BUT, why can't we?
So I'll admit that offenses have played a part in my journey
Denominations
When I first met my husband, Shane, he was 'Catholic' and I was attending a local pentecostal non-denominational church where my mother still attends. Shane had no issues with coming to church with me and I also went with him to the catholic church. I really enjoyed going with him. At this point in my spiritual growth I had come to the conclusion that all believers in the bible and Jesus were 'Christian'. I found the variety of denominations to be a very rational choice of a God that had created such a diverse array of personality types. Why would God only have one type of church when his creation was so varied? If God really desired for all men (and hopefully women) to be saved and come into this personal relationship and spend eternity in heaven, then God would have to find a way to appeal to the masses. The catholic church was rich with traditions and reverence, qualities that my current church lacked. Yet the catholic church seemed to also be lacking in the personal aspects of the God I had grown up with, while also being stuck or solidified, unable to evolve to reach the younger generation of today.
While I was readily accepted into the catholic church and Shane's family (for the most part), my church was not so accepting, and very critical of my choice to date Shane. In a way it felt like a circle of bodies closing in, and pushing me to the outside. The choice to date someone that did not fit the criteria of my cohorts was the beginning of another (one of many previously experienced) exclusion. This exclusion was really probably the most influential in my decision of walking away from the institution of 'church'.
While I was readily accepted into the catholic church and Shane's family (for the most part), my church was not so accepting, and very critical of my choice to date Shane. In a way it felt like a circle of bodies closing in, and pushing me to the outside. The choice to date someone that did not fit the criteria of my cohorts was the beginning of another (one of many previously experienced) exclusion. This exclusion was really probably the most influential in my decision of walking away from the institution of 'church'.
Coffee
One thing I've learned in my years of experience with churches: NEVER believe a pastor's wife when they say they want to have coffee with you. It will never happen.
Friday, April 3, 2009
The Beginnings of Doubt
Over time I've developed unrelenting doubt in Christianity; partially the result of noticing inconsistencies and illogical ideas within the religion.
For instance I was told that if you commit suicide that you would go to hell because you wouldn’t have time to repent of that sin. Which made me psycho about trying to remember every little sin and repenting just in case I would die and have not repented. Over time this turned into a clause at the end of my prayers that went something like “...and please forgive me for all the sins that I can’t remember or don’t know are sins” and then came to add “Please forgive me for all my sins that I may commit tomorrow, because I may forget to confess them.” As I got older I realized that perhaps God forgives ALL our sins at the moment of our salvation and therefore suicides would go to heaven. And all this time I have been wasting my prayers; prayers that were all spoken out of fear. And in case you haven't heard: Fear is the opposite of faith.
Or how about the crazy idea that Catholics aren’t Christians, and therefore are going to hell (hell is another subject that I am uncertain about). What does it really take to ‘get to heaven’ (which seems to be the primary goal of Christians, because it definitely is NOT loving others)? Is it some silly prayer we recite at the front alter of a church, or just belief in Jesus? If it is belief in Jesus, does that mean that those people who carry “Jesus hates fags” signs will be in heaven too? Which immediately brings up the question: “Do I want to be in heaven with these people?” I’d rather be in hell with the fags.
How come getting pregnant out of wedlock is a sin, but the church only views it as a sin for the woman? Why is it that mens' sexual sins are blamed on the way women dress or act? Why is drinking alcohol a sin when the bible states that Jesus drank (Mat 11:19; Luk 7:34)? What was in that holy grail? Why is it okay to be gluttonous, or even joke about it, but homosexuality is never okay, even in jest? Why do Christians overlook the needy? Are Jesus' teachings really consistent with those of the Old Testament?
The questions could go on and on and on, but the reality is that there are obvious inconsistencies and the Christian church has really made their own decisions about sin, while often disregarding the actual bible itself.
For instance I was told that if you commit suicide that you would go to hell because you wouldn’t have time to repent of that sin. Which made me psycho about trying to remember every little sin and repenting just in case I would die and have not repented. Over time this turned into a clause at the end of my prayers that went something like “...and please forgive me for all the sins that I can’t remember or don’t know are sins” and then came to add “Please forgive me for all my sins that I may commit tomorrow, because I may forget to confess them.” As I got older I realized that perhaps God forgives ALL our sins at the moment of our salvation and therefore suicides would go to heaven. And all this time I have been wasting my prayers; prayers that were all spoken out of fear. And in case you haven't heard: Fear is the opposite of faith.
Or how about the crazy idea that Catholics aren’t Christians, and therefore are going to hell (hell is another subject that I am uncertain about). What does it really take to ‘get to heaven’ (which seems to be the primary goal of Christians, because it definitely is NOT loving others)? Is it some silly prayer we recite at the front alter of a church, or just belief in Jesus? If it is belief in Jesus, does that mean that those people who carry “Jesus hates fags” signs will be in heaven too? Which immediately brings up the question: “Do I want to be in heaven with these people?” I’d rather be in hell with the fags.
How come getting pregnant out of wedlock is a sin, but the church only views it as a sin for the woman? Why is it that mens' sexual sins are blamed on the way women dress or act? Why is drinking alcohol a sin when the bible states that Jesus drank (Mat 11:19; Luk 7:34)? What was in that holy grail? Why is it okay to be gluttonous, or even joke about it, but homosexuality is never okay, even in jest? Why do Christians overlook the needy? Are Jesus' teachings really consistent with those of the Old Testament?
The questions could go on and on and on, but the reality is that there are obvious inconsistencies and the Christian church has really made their own decisions about sin, while often disregarding the actual bible itself.
The Beginning
I've always wanted to write my story. Not really an autobiography, but the story of religion in my journey through life. The search for truth; the evolution of my belief system; the fears that religion has inspired; the fears that I have had to overcome. I'll forewarn you, this blog will not be chronological.
I'll start by telling you about the dream I had this morning right before waking, or at least what I remember of it. It is relevant only because I have similar dreams on a regular basis. I'll admit they are less and less regular as time goes on, but still just as intense. Here it goes: I am back at bible school (this is the dream now) and I am trapped. I don't remember why I was trapped there (every one of these dreams varies in why I am trapped and I don't always remember why when I wake up). All I know is that I want to leave to get back to Minnesota to be with my kids and husband, but they will not let me leave. I quickly retreat to my room and begin packing up my things, sneaking around my roommates so they won't sound the alarm and alert the authorities. I realize that the only way to get out is to contact a friend from bible school who lives in the nearby town of Roanoke. I somehow get to a phone and call her; telling her that I need her to pick me up and rescue me. She KNOWS, she knows that she needs to get me, to rescue me, and vows to be there in an hour. I'll be waiting with my bags packed. I know that whatever isn't packed I will have to leave behind. I must be unattached to "things." The plan is to go back to her place so that I can access the Internet to buy an airplane ticket out of here. There is no Internet access at the school and I am being watched because they know that I want to leave. I have this horrible fear that they will cut off Internet access to the whole area to stop me from leaving, so I must work quickly or I won't get the tickets that I desperately need. I wake up before I get rescued.
My dreams in the beginning were not so reassuring. There was no one to rescue me. In those dreams I had no hope, just fear.
My choice to leave Minnesota and the university I was attending came about partially as the result of unrequited love. I was obsessed and depressed. I also was suicidal off and on and I was assured by family and friends that what I needed was God. I found the idea of getting a break from the pressures of the university refreshing, and thought it might give me new perspective. I looked at a few bible schools across the country. I wanted a small, inexpensive school, with very few students. It had to be out in the country where I could really find God. Nature has always helped me connect with God. I finally decided on this particular bible school because I had an acquaintance from church who would be entering her third year at this school. I thought it would help if I knew someone, plus we could share the long drive out there together. She quickly progressed from an acquaintance to a close friend.
I'll start by telling you about the dream I had this morning right before waking, or at least what I remember of it. It is relevant only because I have similar dreams on a regular basis. I'll admit they are less and less regular as time goes on, but still just as intense. Here it goes: I am back at bible school (this is the dream now) and I am trapped. I don't remember why I was trapped there (every one of these dreams varies in why I am trapped and I don't always remember why when I wake up). All I know is that I want to leave to get back to Minnesota to be with my kids and husband, but they will not let me leave. I quickly retreat to my room and begin packing up my things, sneaking around my roommates so they won't sound the alarm and alert the authorities. I realize that the only way to get out is to contact a friend from bible school who lives in the nearby town of Roanoke. I somehow get to a phone and call her; telling her that I need her to pick me up and rescue me. She KNOWS, she knows that she needs to get me, to rescue me, and vows to be there in an hour. I'll be waiting with my bags packed. I know that whatever isn't packed I will have to leave behind. I must be unattached to "things." The plan is to go back to her place so that I can access the Internet to buy an airplane ticket out of here. There is no Internet access at the school and I am being watched because they know that I want to leave. I have this horrible fear that they will cut off Internet access to the whole area to stop me from leaving, so I must work quickly or I won't get the tickets that I desperately need. I wake up before I get rescued.
My dreams in the beginning were not so reassuring. There was no one to rescue me. In those dreams I had no hope, just fear.
My choice to leave Minnesota and the university I was attending came about partially as the result of unrequited love. I was obsessed and depressed. I also was suicidal off and on and I was assured by family and friends that what I needed was God. I found the idea of getting a break from the pressures of the university refreshing, and thought it might give me new perspective. I looked at a few bible schools across the country. I wanted a small, inexpensive school, with very few students. It had to be out in the country where I could really find God. Nature has always helped me connect with God. I finally decided on this particular bible school because I had an acquaintance from church who would be entering her third year at this school. I thought it would help if I knew someone, plus we could share the long drive out there together. She quickly progressed from an acquaintance to a close friend.
The bible school ended up being more like a prison than a refreshing relief from the pressures of college. The students were required to assist leaders by cleaning their mansion homes, landscaping for them, and babysitting their kids (all without pay). Students were required to obey leaders always, not to question the leaders' authority, work on campus for free, and work even when we were sick. Leaders would refuse to let us go to the doctor because Jesus is our healer, they forced us to fast, forced us to pray for hours, and limited our sleep by not letting us nap and requiring we stay up late and get up early. We weren't allowed to leave the campus without permission, and we were not allowed to enjoy the nature surrounding the school. Some of my friends were not allowed to exercise because they were too prideful of their bodies, and others were forced to eat because they were "too skinny." I was told that I had demons or evil spirits surrounding me and controlling me, so I needed to repent and pray to be freed. All of this, plus rules, and rules about rules that governed how we acted, talked, dressed, who we could talk to, how to eat, how to walk, how to worship God... I was scared, I left that place full of fear. I left uncertain of God and uncertain of my place in life. I was disoriented, unfocused and more "messed up" than I was before.
This was the beginning of my journey away from God.
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